Comments on: Why Real Writers Don’t Write on the Internet http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet Helping Internet Writers Achieve Their Dreams Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:46:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Doug Rosbury http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2011 Doug Rosbury Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:31:46 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2011 To the host of this blog: I see that you have written personally on a blog. In other words, that makes you an un - real writer, according to your assesment. In my humble opinion it makes you a person who has expressed an unreal belief. What is real? What is reality? Have you ever asked yourself those questions? Are you saying that i am not a real writer because I have "written" this comment? I believe that would be a very reckless assumption. Am i real? If i am, whatever i do is real. you could similarly say that if iam not real, whatever i do is also not real. I think the belief that you propose is subject to reexamination and clearly, revision. And finally, It is definitely not up to you to say wether or not what i write is real or not! I have the free agency given me by God which is my "REAL" freedom from the influence of people like you who pretend to determine the properties and conditions of my freedom not to mention the freedoms guaranteed by the united states constitution. Also I advise you to rexamine your conscience for having implied what you have concerning the nature of what i write.---Doug Rosbury To the host of this blog: I see that you have written
personally on a blog. In other words, that makes you an un – real writer, according to your assesment. In my
humble opinion it makes you a person who has expressed
an unreal belief. What is real? What is reality? Have you ever asked yourself those questions? Are you saying that
i am not a real writer because I have “written” this comment? I believe that would be a very reckless
assumption. Am i real? If i am, whatever i do is real.
you could similarly say that if iam not real, whatever
i do is also not real. I think the belief that you propose
is subject to reexamination and clearly, revision.
And finally, It is definitely not up to you to say wether
or not what i write is real or not! I have the free agency
given me by God which is my “REAL” freedom from the
influence of people like you who pretend to determine
the properties and conditions of my freedom not to
mention the freedoms guaranteed by the united states constitution. Also I advise you to rexamine your conscience for having implied what you have concerning the nature of what i write.—Doug Rosbury

]]> By: Rowland http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2010 Rowland Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:26:48 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2010 I totally agree 'Good writing' might well fall within 5% of the word count. But two recent 'job offers' I've read required the following: 1. 600 words including three phrases of 2,3 and 3 words each 10 times. That's 13% 2. 500 words including five phrases of 4,4,4,4 and 5 words each 7 times. That's 29.4%!! see what I mean :-( Rowland I totally agree ‘Good writing’ might well fall within 5% of the word count. But two recent ‘job offers’ I’ve read required the following:
1. 600 words including three phrases of 2,3 and 3 words each 10 times. That’s 13%
2. 500 words including five phrases of 4,4,4,4 and 5 words each 7 times. That’s 29.4%!!
see what I mean :-(
Rowland

]]> By: debbie dragon http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2009 debbie dragon Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:02:38 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2009 I agree, mostly. I don't think I explained what I meant clearly the first time around. What I mean is if you're hired to write about a specific topic, you're going to naturally include phrases that will be useful for SEO. There is very rarely a reason to "stuff" an article with keywords - the only way to write about a topic and describe it well is to use phrases that others would commonly type into a search engine to find that information. I guess there are still website owners who look for writers to include a keyword every so many words; or a total of 5% of the article's word count. (That's what the majority of writing jobs were when I started 7 years ago!) Now though, I can't remember the last time a client asked me to go to any extremes with keywords because the search algorithms have changed... where keywords don't carry as much weight as other optimization techniques. I agree, mostly. I don’t think I explained what I meant clearly the first time around. What I mean is if you’re hired to write about a specific topic, you’re going to naturally include phrases that will be useful for SEO. There is very rarely a reason to “stuff” an article with keywords – the only way to write about a topic and describe it well is to use phrases that others would commonly type into a search engine to find that information.

I guess there are still website owners who look for writers to include a keyword every so many words; or a total of 5% of the article’s word count. (That’s what the majority of writing jobs were when I started 7 years ago!) Now though, I can’t remember the last time a client asked me to go to any extremes with keywords because the search algorithms have changed… where keywords don’t carry as much weight as other optimization techniques.

]]> By: Doug Rosbury http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2008 Doug Rosbury Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:59:45 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2008 To write is to commit yourself to a course of exposure, which is the best reason to review content and spelling. Have someone check out your manuscript. Never do it yourself. that's why we have editors. Also, give consideration to your attitude and be ready to reconsider what you have said.------Doug To write is to commit yourself to a course of exposure,
which is the best reason to review content and spelling.
Have someone check out your manuscript. Never do it yourself. that’s why we have editors. Also, give consideration to your attitude and be ready to reconsider
what you have said.——Doug

]]> By: Rowland http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2007 Rowland Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:52:59 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2007 Hi Debbie, I'm not saying that there are no good writers out there on the net: my point is that to find an article on a given topic in the first place, people use search engines. Therefore SEO has to be important to those Clients. If this is not the case with your Clients, you've done extremely well and best of luck to you. However I'm not sure about your assertion that 'good writing' will naturally improve SEO: the latter is based on an analysis of frequency of word use: good writing is based on many factors, many of which are entirely personal. I prefer Michael Dibdin to Donna Leon: I'm not sure a Search engine could discern what that difference actually means to me-the reader: I'm not attracted to Dibdin because he uses the word 'pasta' more or less frequently than Leon does! Best of luck with your work, Rowland Hi Debbie,
I’m not saying that there are no good writers out there on the net: my point is that to find an article on a given topic in the first place, people use search engines. Therefore SEO has to be important to those Clients. If this is not the case with your Clients, you’ve done extremely well and best of luck to you.

However I’m not sure about your assertion that ‘good writing’ will naturally improve SEO: the latter is based on an analysis of frequency of word use: good writing is based on many factors, many of which are entirely personal. I prefer Michael Dibdin to Donna Leon: I’m not sure a Search engine could discern what that difference actually means to me-the reader: I’m not attracted to Dibdin because he uses the word ‘pasta’ more or less frequently than Leon does!

Best of luck with your work,
Rowland

]]> By: Rowland http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2006 Rowland Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:37:55 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2006 Thanks Jon. I'm glad you appreciate the observation: it seem fundamental to me: I recently contacted yet another agency about freelancing writing an the examples they gave were grammatically appalling, simply a number of sloganistic phrases with keywords inserted.... horrific! It distresses me, no end! Thanks Jon.
I’m glad you appreciate the observation: it seem fundamental to me: I recently contacted yet another agency about freelancing writing an the examples they gave were grammatically appalling, simply a number of sloganistic phrases with keywords inserted…. horrific!

It distresses me, no end!

]]> By: debbie dragon http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2005 debbie dragon Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:34:55 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2005 Rowland- there are many people who write for readers on the internet, not "just" for SEO. Most of my clients hire me to write for people, too, although good writing will naturally improve a site's SEO without keyword stuffing. Rowland- there are many people who write for readers on the internet, not “just” for SEO. Most of my clients hire me to write for people, too, although good writing will naturally improve a site’s SEO without keyword stuffing.

]]> By: Jon http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-2004 Jon Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:07:03 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-2004 Rowland - of many excellent points made here, yours is particularly interesting. Rowland – of many excellent points made here, yours is particularly interesting.

]]> By: rowland http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1693 rowland Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:15 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1693 I think there's something missing from this discussion: the audience. Writing for print, involves writing for people: the publishers who hire the writer to write for the readers. Much of the paid writing that takes place on the web is written or commissioned on the basis of SEO and keywords. Given that the average visit to a site is less than a minute: the 'writing' is designed to attract a search engine, and then generate a response: somebody clicking on an ad. Surely that is the essential difference: writing for people or search engines? Not to mention the fact that much of the most successful writing on the net seems to be about how to write for the net: somewhat incestuous, I feel.... Rowland I think there’s something missing from this discussion: the audience. Writing for print, involves writing for people: the publishers who hire the writer to write for the readers. Much of the paid writing that takes place on the web is written or commissioned on the basis of SEO and keywords. Given that the average visit to a site is less than a minute: the ‘writing’ is designed to attract a search engine, and then generate a response: somebody clicking on an ad. Surely that is the essential difference: writing for people or search engines?
Not to mention the fact that much of the most successful writing on the net seems to be about how to write for the net: somewhat incestuous, I feel….
Rowland

]]> By: Ben http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1675 Ben Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:08:54 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1675 I gotta say, litterally every single one of my favorite authors write blogs. I gotta say, litterally every single one of my favorite authors write blogs.

]]> By: Doug Rosbury http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1608 Doug Rosbury Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:19:09 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1608 If you write, expecting payment, your writing reflects that attitude. If you dedicate your writing without that attitude, You will be able to express more freely and the payment will more freely reflect the quality of your writing. Dedicate your writing to its quality rather than to what money you may receive and your selfless attitude will show up as increased quality in your written text. -------Doug If you write, expecting payment, your writing reflects that attitude. If you dedicate your writing without that attitude, You will be able to express more freely and the
payment will more freely reflect the quality of your writing. Dedicate your writing to its quality rather than to what money you may receive and your selfless attitude will show up as increased quality in your written text.
——-Doug

]]> By: Rainy http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1607 Rainy Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:29:40 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1607 Um... Neil Gaiman? Emma Bull, Will Shetterly, Rachel Caine, Wil Wheaton? Oh hell, it would take too long. I will sum up: http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/002815.html All those folks are published authors AND they write on the internet, for free. My shelves are filled with their books and I paid actual money for them. That's pretty "real" don't you think? I think you are clinging to your opinion in error. Um… Neil Gaiman? Emma Bull, Will Shetterly, Rachel Caine, Wil Wheaton? Oh hell, it would take too long. I will sum up:

http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/002815.html

All those folks are published authors AND they write on the internet, for free. My shelves are filled with their books and I paid actual money for them. That’s pretty “real” don’t you think?

I think you are clinging to your opinion in error.

]]> By: Write and Earn a Living http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1579 Write and Earn a Living Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:46:10 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1579 I agree with your insights about how much you actually have to write for hard copy in order to get paid. While pay rates may seem higher, the investment in terms of time spent in order to actually get paid, makes Web-based writing faster and easier. Writers have bills and waiting months to receive payment is just so out there. A combination of print and Internet writing is probably the ideal. For myself, I've earned far more with online writing and love the ease of use: instant submission and almost instant payment. I agree with your insights about how much you actually have to write for hard copy in order to get paid. While pay rates may seem higher, the investment in terms of time spent in order to actually get paid, makes Web-based writing faster and easier.

Writers have bills and waiting months to receive payment is just so out there.

A combination of print and Internet writing is probably the ideal.

For myself, I’ve earned far more with online writing and love the ease of use: instant submission and almost instant payment.

]]> By: Andy http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1482 Andy Sat, 01 Nov 2008 05:28:21 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1482 Honestly Doug you are right about what you said in your comment. It is honestly just something that most likely mistakenly, but still I need to know. I believe the Russians have a good expression for something similar to what I am going through, Each man is allowed a bit of madness in his own way, I suppose this is my bit of madness, my one little neurosis. I also think the anxiety of it allows me to do better, I took the SATs multiple times, and one might I got little sleep, and had an head ache, and that is when I got a really high score. I have always been the nervous overachiever who never stops to smell the roses. I am trying to have more fun with it, and shed that real writer concept, I mean what good is doing something if you can't derive some pleasure and trust yourself? So I think I have to learn that. Honestly Doug you are right about what you said in your comment. It is honestly just something that most likely mistakenly, but still I need to know. I believe the Russians have a good expression for something similar to what I am going through, Each man is allowed a bit of madness in his own way, I suppose this is my bit of madness, my one little neurosis.

I also think the anxiety of it allows me to do better, I took the SATs multiple times, and one might I got little sleep, and had an head ache, and that is when I got a really high score. I have always been the nervous overachiever who never stops to smell the roses. I am trying to have more fun with it, and shed that real writer concept, I mean what good is doing something if you can’t derive some pleasure and trust yourself? So I think I have to learn that.

]]> By: Doug Rosbury http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1481 Doug Rosbury Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:40:45 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1481 If you truly believe you're a good writer, why would you reguire confirmation to make you feel secure? In my book, any one who writes is a real writer. the way you use the concept, it makes "real writer" sound like a judgement and an unfair classification. Why not just have fun at your writing and stop with this business of real and not real. It just causes unnecessary anxiety. ------Doug Rosbury If you truly believe you’re a good writer, why would
you reguire confirmation to make you feel secure?
In my book, any one who writes is a real writer. the way you use the concept, it makes “real writer” sound like a judgement and an unfair classification.
Why not just have fun at your writing and stop with this business of real and not real. It just causes unnecessary anxiety. ——Doug Rosbury

]]> By: Andy http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1480 Andy Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:26:34 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1480 Doug, actually I said personally I would not consider myself a real writer if I just wrote on the internet. If you think that makes you a real writer, well that is good enough, I think like I stated what it comes down to is how the person doing the writing feels about it. If I wrote for a major website with a editor, or something, it would make me not much different than someone who wrote for a print based periodical. If I felt that writing a blog made me a real writer, and I also felt that the quality of my work was polished enough that I would not care what a critic, editor or anyone else thought, that would make me a real writer. I am a person who is predisposed to needing some confirmation that I am in fact as talented as I believe to be. I apologize for any misunderstanding my last comment caused, I did not mean it as a judgment of anyone else beyond myself. As for you claiming that I am an "unreal" writer, I made and make no arguments to the contrary about that. Doug, actually I said personally I would not consider myself a real writer if I just wrote on the internet. If you think that makes you a real writer, well that is good enough, I think like I stated what it comes down to is how the person doing the writing feels about it. If I wrote for a major website with a editor, or something, it would make me not much different than someone who wrote for a print based periodical.

If I felt that writing a blog made me a real writer, and I also felt that the quality of my work was polished enough that I would not care what a critic, editor or anyone else thought, that would make me a real writer. I am a person who is predisposed to needing some confirmation that I am in fact as talented as I believe to be.

I apologize for any misunderstanding my last comment caused, I did not mean it as a judgment of anyone else beyond myself. As for you claiming that I am an “unreal” writer, I made and make no arguments to the contrary about that.

]]> By: Doug Rosbury http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1477 Doug Rosbury Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:11:02 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1477 Are you saying that if you blog on the internet you are not a real writer? you did say that "real" writers don't write on the internet. In my opinion your whole treatise on "real" writers is quite inaccurate and silly. Does that mean that if you write on the internet,you are an "unreal" writer? You do seem rather unreal at that.---Doug Rosbury Are you saying that if you blog on the internet
you are not a real writer? you did say that “real”
writers don’t write on the internet. In my opinion
your whole treatise on “real” writers is quite
inaccurate and silly. Does that mean that if you write on the internet,you are an “unreal” writer?
You do seem rather unreal at that.—Doug Rosbury

]]> By: rawdawgbuffalo http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1476 rawdawgbuffalo Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:11:42 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1476 the stuff i post on internet via my blog is also published in newspapers, lit journals and i even sell 4 to 6 books a week on my blog LOL rawdawgbuffalos last blog post..<a href="http://rawdawgb.blogspot.com/2008/10/will-u-be-ther-in-am.html" rel="nofollow">will u be ther in the am?</a> the stuff i post on internet via my blog is also published in newspapers, lit journals and i even sell 4 to 6 books a week on my blog

LOL

rawdawgbuffalos last blog post..will u be ther in the am?

]]> By: Andy http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1340 Andy Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:27:56 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1340 If you win some sort of contest or award or get paid for writing at some point I would say that is a "real writer". This is something I have been thinking about since the comment you are talking about was written. My goal personally is to get in print, on paper, and have something selected for publishing. I am sort of old fashioned about that kind of stuff, for me being in paper print would serve as an affirmation that I have the talent I believe I have. On the other hand one can read some of the schlock that does get published in paperback and publications and read some good stuff on the internet, and I think it does point to the fact that the internet if full of people with real writing talent. I suppose it is in the end, what would make the individual consider him or her self a "real writer", what would it take for that person to think they are now on that level. If you win some sort of contest or award or get paid for writing at some point I would say that is a “real writer”. This is something I have been thinking about since the comment you are talking about was written. My goal personally is to get in print, on paper, and have something selected for publishing. I am sort of old fashioned about that kind of stuff, for me being in paper print would serve as an affirmation that I have the talent I believe I have.

On the other hand one can read some of the schlock that does get published in paperback and publications and read some good stuff on the internet, and I think it does point to the fact that the internet if full of people with real writing talent. I suppose it is in the end, what would make the individual consider him or her self a “real writer”, what would it take for that person to think they are now on that level.

]]> By: Notation Software Music Editor & Music Maker - Personal Composer http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet/comment-page-2#comment-1339 Notation Software Music Editor & Music Maker - Personal Composer Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:26:18 +0000 http://writing-journey.com/internet-writing/why-real-writers-dont-write-on-the-internet#comment-1339 I work at a place where they hire copywriters to write "web content" for lawyer websites. Apart from blogging, they write all the content as well. They do not get paid per word, but they do receive a salary. So by your standards, you do not consider these people real writers? Notation Software Music Editor & Music Maker - Personal Composers last blog post..<a href="http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/three-scenes-ii-sun-rises-16700.html" rel="nofollow">Three Scenes: II. The Sun Rises</a> I work at a place where they hire copywriters to write “web content” for lawyer websites. Apart from blogging, they write all the content as well. They do not get paid per word, but they do receive a salary. So by your standards, you do not consider these people real writers?

Notation Software Music Editor & Music Maker – Personal Composers last blog post..Three Scenes: II. The Sun Rises

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